RE: Important: @Moderatoes Is it possible to change forum rule on HD section criteria?
(04-28-2022, 01:32 PM)Originally Posted by chicmagnet@sunil_thilak Please accept our apologies if you've felt insulted or threatened. thedarkaxe was only trying to apply the rules. Agreed, could've been more empathetic. We're overburdened again due to the workload. It's more of a result of that. @thedarkaxe has single handedly cleaned up all prefixes under the HD section spending insane amount of hours. Mods are abused most times when they take any action. It's mentally draining at times for just doing what is a thankless job.
I was not aware of your issue until darkaxe brought it to my attention and from your recent tagging of mods. HD section has been a real pain to moderate because of the complexities involved in qualifying something as a HD. Please go though this thread in detail to understand the pain points from both an uploader's perspective and moderators' perspective. Mods should be able to assess the quality just by looking at the caps & can check the file size for context.
As per the existing system, anything manually enhanced is not considered as HD. Hence the moving of your threads to non-hd section. True HD source means Blu-ray or HDTV. Why? Because manually enhancing it resulted in either inconsistent look & feel over various videos or vastly inflated file size for the given clarity or both. This has been the case so far. There were even occasions where some users posted top quality caps on enhanced videos but the video clarity was different. Checking all of this for every HD video was getting impractical.
We're open to updating the rules. But it should get simpler for everyone. If mods need to verify that a video is HD or not only by downloading and checking it, not gonna happen. Why ? Cos they have limited time and all other sections to moderate as well.
We want only one HD section. Also, there is 1080P and 4K. There could be 8K and so on in the coming years. While upscaling old low quality videos into HD like clarity (using AI and DI or whatever means) might be good, we end up having repeated versions of the same video again and again. That contradicts with the uniqueness of videos on the forum. The reason we don't allow reposts in general is, we want uniqueness. A user can download any video from the site and that should be the unique copy of it. We could merge a better quality version with the existing version which is what we're inclined to do.
Merging such enhanced 4K videos with existing HD copies if the quality is better, could be a way. That annoys the uploader who has spent time & effort. Creating another 4K section and a 8K section and so on is creating more and more work for us and won't happen cos we won't be able to maintain them given the workload.
All suggestions welcome in finding a solution.
As I have said that maximum I can do is show you a screenrecorded proof of how I enhance my videos to the mods with before & after side by side and how improved the quality looks.. Or a small 20-30 sec demo clip of 4K video in gdrive/ mega if you require more proof of how good the quality looks.. I am seriously willing to do that & go that extra mile to show how genuine my request is.. But I fear you will still don't oblige by this and return to the same point again and again that 4K enhanced videos are not allowed in HD. I am tired of this never ending argument.. Just a casual reminder that 4K tentkotta rips of what you have allowed in Hd section here ex: Thiruttapayale movie was enhanced from DVD9 format to 4K and again compressed to less than 20gb file size.. The true uncompressed 4K file size after enhancement is very large. Most films were not even shot in 4K format. They were shot in film and then infact upscaled to whatever quality you are seeing now.. AI ENHANCEMENT also very very expensive software as well as hardware that is why you don't see more 4K UHD movies . I tried to do something out of the ordinary here. You won't find such quality even in any pirated & ott sites with AI enhancement. When the first time I saw the output of what can be achieved with this it blew my mind. I was willing to share it with you guys, but I am tired of all the argument despite my repeated requests and queries.. When you enhance & export to 4K video what do you expect with the file size less than 100 mb ? Please don't ridicule me with mb size discussion.. You make it look like it is as if I found this only to increase the file size and not the quality.. UPSCALE UPSCALE UPSCALE it's fricking insulting to hear the word again and again despite the level of quality we achieve through this process. Until people change their preconceived notions & perspective about upscaled videos & enhanced videos and are willing to get beyond it , I fear this debate will never stop. Anyone can upscale a video by throwing it in a render timeline & setting the export format as 4K ( 3840 x 2160 ). It will never improve the quality of the video. But Enhancement does. That is why it is very expensive and not available for free of cost & requires serious hardware.
Again ENHACEMENT not equal to UPSCALE. They are both different. Thanks.
RE: Important: @Moderatoes Is it possible to change forum rule on HD section criteria?
(04-28-2022, 07:13 PM)Originally Posted by whoamiI want to say few words first of all about tvrip videos in my personal tvrip videos of old songs or videos have more quality than their ott counterparts,but in some cases it's the opposite.i have the best example
Remastered has better quality in this case but it's usually rare.
If mods cannot download all hd videos and check ,ask uploaders to include few seconds preview clip then I am sure we can know for sure if it's worth it.
And as far as upscaled videos are concerned create a upscaled hd video section give a message that this particular section consists videos upscaled using software,let people decide if they want to download.Isnt why we have different sections of videos?
Valid point.. but still I don't see any positive signs.. The mods are here so ironwilled & stern when it comes to that. They will just come up with excuses rather than a solution is what I fear @whoami
RE: Important: @Moderatoes Is it possible to change forum rule on HD section criteria?
(04-28-2022, 07:38 PM)Originally Posted by sunil_thilak
(04-28-2022, 01:32 PM)Originally Posted by chicmagnet@sunil_thilak Please accept our apologies if you've felt insulted or threatened. thedarkaxe was only trying to apply the rules. Agreed, could've been more empathetic. We're overburdened again due to the workload. It's more of a result of that. @thedarkaxe has single handedly cleaned up all prefixes under the HD section spending insane amount of hours. Mods are abused most times when they take any action. It's mentally draining at times for just doing what is a thankless job.
I was not aware of your issue until darkaxe brought it to my attention and from your recent tagging of mods. HD section has been a real pain to moderate because of the complexities involved in qualifying something as a HD. Please go though this thread in detail to understand the pain points from both an uploader's perspective and moderators' perspective. Mods should be able to assess the quality just by looking at the caps & can check the file size for context.
As per the existing system, anything manually enhanced is not considered as HD. Hence the moving of your threads to non-hd section. True HD source means Blu-ray or HDTV. Why? Because manually enhancing it resulted in either inconsistent look & feel over various videos or vastly inflated file size for the given clarity or both. This has been the case so far. There were even occasions where some users posted top quality caps on enhanced videos but the video clarity was different. Checking all of this for every HD video was getting impractical.
We're open to updating the rules. But it should get simpler for everyone. If mods need to verify that a video is HD or not only by downloading and checking it, not gonna happen. Why ? Cos they have limited time and all other sections to moderate as well.
We want only one HD section. Also, there is 1080P and 4K. There could be 8K and so on in the coming years. While upscaling old low quality videos into HD like clarity (using AI and DI or whatever means) might be good, we end up having repeated versions of the same video again and again. That contradicts with the uniqueness of videos on the forum. The reason we don't allow reposts in general is, we want uniqueness. A user can download any video from the site and that should be the unique copy of it. We could merge a better quality version with the existing version which is what we're inclined to do.
Merging such enhanced 4K videos with existing HD copies if the quality is better, could be a way. That annoys the uploader who has spent time & effort. Creating another 4K section and a 8K section and so on is creating more and more work for us and won't happen cos we won't be able to maintain them given the workload.
All suggestions welcome in finding a solution.
As I have said that maximum I can do is show you a screenrecorded proof of how I enhance my videos to the mods with before & after side by side and how improved the quality looks.. Or a small 20-30 sec demo clip of 4K video in gdrive/ mega if you require more proof of how good the quality looks.. I am seriously willing to do that & go that extra mile to show how genuine my request is.. But I fear you will still don't oblige by this and return to the same point again and again that 4K enhanced videos are not allowed in HD. I am tired of this never ending argument.. Just a casual reminder that 4K tentkotta rips of what you have allowed in Hd section here ex: Thiruttapayale movie was enhanced from DVD9 format to 4K and again compressed to less than 20gb file size.. The true uncompressed 4K file size after enhancement is very large. Most films were not even shot in 4K format. They were shot in film and then infact upscaled to whatever quality you are seeing now.. AI ENHANCEMENT also very very expensive software as well as hardware that is why you don't see more 4K UHD movies . I tried to do something out of the ordinary here. You won't find such quality even in any pirated & ott sites with AI enhancement. When the first time I saw the output of what can be achieved with this it blew my mind. I was willing to share it with you guys, but I am tired of all the argument despite my repeated requests and queries.. When you enhance & export to 4K video what do you expect with the file size less than 100 mb ? Please don't ridicule me with mb size discussion.. You make it look like it is as if I found this only to increase the file size and not the quality.. UPSCALE UPSCALE UPSCALE it's fricking insulting to hear the word again and again despite the level of quality we achieve through this process. Until people change their preconceived notions & perspective about upscaled videos & enhanced videos and are willing to get beyond it , I fear this debate will never stop. Anyone can upscale a video by throwing it in a render timeline & setting the export format as 4K ( 3840 x 2160 ). It will never improve the quality of the video. But Enhancement does. That is why it is very expensive and not available for free of cost & requires serious hardware.
Again ENHACEMENT not equal to UPSCALE. They are both different. Thanks.
Our stance is based on how some users manipulated videos or took advantage in the past. And we want to make sure such issues do not happen again. So when we plan, we look at all of that. You are not likely to have that context. Please stop taking things personal.
Come back once you have calmed down. No need to reply until then. Try to understand exactly what we are trying. Same goes for you @thedarkaxe. If I see any more reply on this thread ridiculing or attacking each other, I will delete that comment.
RE: Important: @Moderatoes Is it possible to change forum rule on HD section criteria?
(04-28-2022, 07:13 PM)Originally Posted by whoamiI want to say few words first of all about tvrip videos in my personal tvrip videos of old songs or videos have more quality than their ott counterparts,but in some cases it's the opposite.i have the best example
Remastered has better quality in this case but it's usually rare.
If mods cannot download all hd videos and check ,ask uploaders to include few seconds preview clip then I am sure we can know for sure if it's worth it.
And as far as upscaled videos are concerned create a upscaled hd video section give a message that this particular section consists videos upscaled using software,let people decide if they want to download.Isnt why we have different sections of videos?
Thanks for your inputs. HD or SD. We do not want a middle ground. Because maintenance overhead is ridiculously painful. In the old MD, they used to merge when a better version is posted be it SD or HD. That's what we're inclined towards. Because the downloader can see all copies in one place and choose which one they want to download. The uniqueness aspect is also met with this solution.
RE: Important: @Moderatoes Is it possible to change forum rule on HD section criteria?
After giving lot of thoughts these are the final points I can comeup with
1) HD VIDEOS should be judged mainly based on the quality & how good it looks even if it uses Software Enhancement for Upscaling / Enhancing. Also if the moderator is not satisfied with the caps and can't judge with regards to the file size , then the easier & fastest way would be a preview clip sent only specifically to the mods( 20-30 secs maximum) so they don't have to waste their bandwith or time for downloading the larger files and can easily judge if there is any discrepancy with the quality in caps.
Also a maximum file size limit can also be set to 1.5 gb - 1.2 gb maximum anything less can affect the quality inadvertently.
Also the mods should be considerate when it comes to judging. We can't just hand it over completely to one person. Sometimes the opinions maybe biased / subjective and good Quality can be forced to NonHD. So atleast we need another person's opinion when it comes to judging the quality.
2) This is incase 4K ENHANCED videos or proper upscaled can't / won't be included in HD Section no matter what...
Start a fresh exclusive section for 4K ENHANCED / upscaled / Remastered videos which are of great quality. Poor upscales shouldn't be allowed in it so that we can maintain a good proper standard for the section. It's the job of mods to determine the quality so again here we can use the preview clip idea to judge the quality. If you allow everyone to post in 4K section then people will automatically start ignoring good work with the bunch of poorly upscaled videos. I believe in future we may find good talents who can do proper good remastering.
3) All this points are laid down so that the mods should understand why we are fighting for this because it takes a lot of time , effort , costly software and serious hardware to ENHANCE videos. Again ENHANCEMENT is not equal to UPSCALING. Upscaling is only a part of enhancement which includes various aspects including Sharpening , detail recovery , Deblurring , Dehaloing , Noise reduction in addition to encoding the videos to proper mp4 format. I can even provide a small screen recorded clip of how ENHANCEMENT process is down with an actual before & after video side by side if the MODS require anymore proof / details. We take the effort to enhance the videos so we must be incentivised / rewarded with something for the effort we do. That's the main reason we have been fighting non stop to include our videos in HD. If all our efforts are justed to be wasted in some corner in NonHd then it's an actual waste of our time & effort compared to the output we give.
4) MOST IMPORTANT POINT You cannot allow the judging of HD videos to just one person. They are bound to be subjective and opinionated or biased. We need 2 or 3 mods to actually judge. So that any difference in opinion could be sorted out. This is mainly because so much of HDTV videos in HD section are given free pass by the mods when they are of absolute garbage quality compared to the file size they give.. It's natural for people to get offended when a properly enhanced video / remastered video with actual good quality is allowed only in NonHd compared to poor quality HDTV videos that are being allowed in HD.. This is a very visible double standard in HD section. If rules are the same for everyone then how come they alone get a free pass..? It's kind of insulting for people who give actual exclusively good HD content.
RE: Important: @Moderatoes Is it possible to change forum rule on HD section criteria?
(04-29-2022, 06:53 AM)Originally Posted by chicmagnet
(04-28-2022, 07:13 PM)Originally Posted by whoamiI want to say few words first of all about tvrip videos in my personal tvrip videos of old songs or videos have more quality than their ott counterparts,but in some cases it's the opposite.i have the best example
Remastered has better quality in this case but it's usually rare.
If mods cannot download all hd videos and check ,ask uploaders to include few seconds preview clip then I am sure we can know for sure if it's worth it.
And as far as upscaled videos are concerned create a upscaled hd video section give a message that this particular section consists videos upscaled using software,let people decide if they want to download.Isnt why we have different sections of videos?
Thanks for your inputs. HD or SD. We do not want a middle ground. Because maintenance overhead is ridiculously painful. In the old MD, they used to merge when a better version is posted be it SD or HD. That's what we're inclined towards. Because the downloader can see all copies in one place and choose which one they want to download. The uniqueness aspect is also met with this solution.
Merging videos will never solve the problem infact it will make them more invisible / add more fuel to their wasted effort. No one is going to click a thread if an older DVDRip format is available in the preview / thumbnail section and a good quality video is below down it and they have to scroll through down to download it. It will rapidly reduce the download streak. If they are to judge they can judge based on the preview / thumbnail column itself so that they don't have to waste their time on older quality videos. If a person is searching for something it has to be made visible to him there itself. If you merge videos he may think such quality itself never exists. And won't waste his time to scroll down & see.. You see how this very very easily breaks the effort of people trying.l to be better.
RE: Important: @Moderatoes Is it possible to change forum rule on HD section criteria?
Excellent suggestions @sunil_thilak I'll discuss with other admin team members and get their thoughts as well.
FYI, being a new forum there was no standard in place for the HD section for a long while. We started setting requirements only for a year or so. So videos posted before that will obviously not meet the criteria. Don't get offended or insulted about that. Don't take things personally. Thanks again for your valuable suggestions.
RE: Important: @Moderatoes Is it possible to change forum rule on HD section criteria?
(04-29-2022, 01:16 PM)Originally Posted by chicmagnetExcellent suggestions @sunil_thilak I'll discuss with other admin team members and get their thoughts as well.
FYI, being a new forum there was no standard in place for the HD section for a long while. We started setting requirements only for a year or so. So videos posted before that will obviously not meet the criteria. Don't get offended or insulted about that. Don't take things personally. Thanks again for your valuable suggestions.
You are welcome. Yeah I can understand it's a difficult job to move every old hd videos.. I am okay with them being there until we are given due consideration. Thanks a lot for understanding finally. I hope you come up with a quick & positive decision so that I can continue with my 4k video uploads.
RE: Important: @Moderatoes Is it possible to change forum rule on HD section criteria?
@sunil_thilak and others: You can post enhanced 4K mainstream videos using a HD prefix as long as the video has superior quality i.e. true HD look and feel (Crisp, bright enough, Crystal clear quality with no blur/grains).
We are allowing this on a trial basis for now, to see how it goes. We do not want upscaled videos with grains/poor quality which were posted in the past by some users for the sake of BW. Such users got banned. At the same time, we want to encourage genuine HD quality videos and appreciate the efforts taken in uploading them.
Note to all: If mods feel that the quality is not up to the mark then they will move it to SD. Repeated attempts at misusing the system will lead to ban and deletion of videos. The final decision rests with mods. Unfortunately we have to remind this since the system was misused in the past. As long as you're taking genuine efforts and the outcome of the video meets the requirements, you don't have to worry about this.
The following 1 user says Thank You to chicmagnet for this post:1 user says Thank You to chicmagnet for this post • sunil_thilak
RE: Important: @Moderatoes Is it possible to change forum rule on HD section criteria?
(05-08-2022, 03:10 PM)Originally Posted by chicmagnet@sunil_thilak and others: You can post enhanced 4K mainstream videos using a HD prefix as long as the video has superior quality i.e. true HD look and feel (Crisp, bright enough, Crystal clear quality with no blur/grains).
We are allowing this on a trial basis for now, to see how it goes. We do not want upscaled videos with grains/poor quality which were posted in the past by some users for the sake of BW. Such users got banned. At the same time, we want to encourage genuine HD quality videos and appreciate the efforts taken in uploading them.
Note to all: If mods feel that the quality is not up to the mark then they will move it to SD. Repeated attempts at misusing the system will lead to ban and deletion of videos. The final decision rests with mods. Unfortunately we have to remind this since the system was misused in the past. As long as you're taking genuine efforts and the outcome of the video meets the requirements, you don't have to worry about this.
@chicmagnet Finally thanks this is a big sign of hope & great deal of change for us uploaders.. Will surely abide by the rules you mentioned.
I am posting some of the previously posted 4K ENHANCED videos link here that are of great quality but have been moved to nonHD section. I sincerely request the mods to change it to HD considering the quality of the videos in mind with regards to the new change in rules ( for trial basis ). Please take a look & do the needful. Also ready to send a preview clip if the mods find it necessary to verify the quality @thedarkaxe @kingsplendour1 @Tamannaah @SHINING_SPECIALL @Spark hari @2nitin2
RE: Important: @Moderatoes Is it possible to change forum rule on HD section criteria?
(05-08-2022, 05:30 PM)Originally Posted by sunil_thilak
(05-08-2022, 03:10 PM)Originally Posted by chicmagnet@sunil_thilak and others: You can post enhanced 4K mainstream videos using a HD prefix as long as the video has superior quality i.e. true HD look and feel (Crisp, bright enough, Crystal clear quality with no blur/grains).
We are allowing this on a trial basis for now, to see how it goes. We do not want upscaled videos with grains/poor quality which were posted in the past by some users for the sake of BW. Such users got banned. At the same time, we want to encourage genuine HD quality videos and appreciate the efforts taken in uploading them.
Note to all: If mods feel that the quality is not up to the mark then they will move it to SD. Repeated attempts at misusing the system will lead to ban and deletion of videos. The final decision rests with mods. Unfortunately we have to remind this since the system was misused in the past. As long as you're taking genuine efforts and the outcome of the video meets the requirements, you don't have to worry about this.
@chicmagnet Finally thanks this is a big sign of hope & great deal of change for us uploaders.. Will surely abide by the rules you mentioned.
I am posting some of the previously posted 4K ENHANCED videos link here that are of great quality but have been moved to nonHD section. I sincerely request the mods to change it to HD considering the quality of the videos in mind with regards to the new change in rules ( for trial basis ). Please take a look & do the needful. Also ready to send a preview clip if the mods find it necessary to verify the quality @thedarkaxe @kingsplendour1 @Tamannaah @SHINING_SPECIALL @Spark hari @2nitin2
I moved all the ones to HD section looking at the crisp quality except the second because i feel its still SD taken from DVD print.If any one disagrees please confirm me
The following 1 user says Thank You to thedarkaxe for this post:1 user says Thank You to thedarkaxe for this post • sunil_thilak
RE: Important: @Moderatoes Is it possible to change forum rule on HD section criteria?
(05-08-2022, 07:34 PM)Originally Posted by thedarkaxe
(05-08-2022, 05:30 PM)Originally Posted by sunil_thilak
(05-08-2022, 03:10 PM)Originally Posted by chicmagnet@sunil_thilak and others: You can post enhanced 4K mainstream videos using a HD prefix as long as the video has superior quality i.e. true HD look and feel (Crisp, bright enough, Crystal clear quality with no blur/grains).
We are allowing this on a trial basis for now, to see how it goes. We do not want upscaled videos with grains/poor quality which were posted in the past by some users for the sake of BW. Such users got banned. At the same time, we want to encourage genuine HD quality videos and appreciate the efforts taken in uploading them.
Note to all: If mods feel that the quality is not up to the mark then they will move it to SD. Repeated attempts at misusing the system will lead to ban and deletion of videos. The final decision rests with mods. Unfortunately we have to remind this since the system was misused in the past. As long as you're taking genuine efforts and the outcome of the video meets the requirements, you don't have to worry about this.
@chicmagnet Finally thanks this is a big sign of hope & great deal of change for us uploaders.. Will surely abide by the rules you mentioned.
I am posting some of the previously posted 4K ENHANCED videos link here that are of great quality but have been moved to nonHD section. I sincerely request the mods to change it to HD considering the quality of the videos in mind with regards to the new change in rules ( for trial basis ). Please take a look & do the needful. Also ready to send a preview clip if the mods find it necessary to verify the quality @thedarkaxe @kingsplendour1 @Tamannaah @SHINING_SPECIALL @Spark hari @2nitin2
I moved all the ones to HD section looking at the crisp quality except the second because i feel its still SD taken from DVD print.If any one disagrees please confirm me
Thanks @thedarkaxe really appreciate it... For the second one.. It's enhanced from dvd9 format only because all other formats are either oversaturated or have weird aspect ratio and excessively blurred .. Sometimes the raw dvd 9 format only has the best neutral tone to enhance videos.. Hence used it.. But the output I got after enhancing was quite good only. Let's wait if others have any change in opinion.
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RE: Important: @Moderatoes Is it possible to change forum rule on HD section criteria?
Why not make a separate group for AI-enhanced videos? it is not like they are not in demand. AI-enhancing too is a time-consuming and resource-intensive job. Many videos especially from "HDTV" sources, I enhance and correct the aspect ratio and colour at my leisure using Topaz and avideMux, since grains and stretched look irritate me sometimes. I wish those uploading enhanced videos must also be given their due, as it makes many so-called HD videos watchable and easier to consume. I am not justifying those who upload misleading caps while their video is of crap quality. I agree this not the ultimate solution, but should definitely be discussed.
Once again - this is my humble 2 cents. Cheers!
RE: Important: @Moderatoes Is it possible to change forum rule on HD section criteria?
(05-09-2022, 12:44 AM)Originally Posted by juliaticafanWhy not make a separate group for AI-enhanced videos? it is not like they are not in demand. AI-enhancing too is a time-consuming and resource-intensive job. Many videos especially from "HDTV" sources, I enhance and correct the aspect ratio and colour at my leisure using Topaz and avideMux, since grains and stretched look irritate me sometimes. I wish those uploading enhanced videos must also be given their due, as it makes many so-called HD videos watchable and easier to consume. I am not justifying those who upload misleading caps while their video is of crap quality. I agree this not the ultimate solution, but should definitely be discussed.
Once again - this is my humble 2 cents. Cheers!
Thank you for your suggestions. If the AI enhanced video is good enough, it could be in HD. If not, it would be in SD as long as there is no existing copy with similar quality. Creating a separate group for AI-enhanced videos defeats the purpose of such enhancement. Also, it is impractical to maintain it given the management overhead and moderation burden.
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Discussion Important: @Moderatoes Is it possible to change forum rule on HD section criteria?
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